So now are vehicles officially dead? A dozen or so games into 6th edition now and I’m shocked at how easy they go down to focused fire as hull points are easy to strip, and that isn’t taking into account that you can still “kill” them in a single shot. I won’t say that they are broken and worthless, but rather perhaps adjusted to be in line with how powerful the weapons are in the game. So is your razorspam army officially dead? Are IG parking lot armies done for?
Not fully.
In their 5th edition incarnation yes, but if we go to a hybrid list then perhaps the opposite. Realize you razorback is not a gunboat that shoots for six turn while sitting on an objective. Transport vehicles are there to transport you to the front line so you can at least not take any losses on the way in from anti-infantry fire. I already see the return to full 10 marine tactical squads with plasma and missile launchers so you kind of need a rhino- plus is it worth the points to take a razorback that isn’t going to shoot, or maybe snap fire at best and then die in two turns? Razor/rhinos will transition back to their intended place as transports and not gunships- leave that for the flyers.
Where I do see a return of tanks is in long range support where they always kind of have been for Space Marines- predators all jacked out, perhaps even a whirlwind or two due to the return of infantry and for IG some leman russ tanks- battle cannon, plasma cannons (or heavy bolters if you worry about getting hot), las cannons, etc. Park in cover and blast away.
And what about AV 14?
Running my dual land raider grey knight list and my two monoliths for lolz I’ve noticed that they are still very strong- sure they don’t last as long as 5th edition, but they last long enough and make up for it by being able to snap fire and protect guys inside, or teleporty in with Necrons.
What are you guys seeing in your segment of the galaxy?
Do you think we will see more hybrid tank/infantry lists?
At the end of the day will AV 14 be the only vehicles on the table?
Some armies can still run the mass of tanks they had before - hell even more with Allies. Some armies cannot.
ReplyDeleteHull points puts a very interesting spin on how each army interacts with vehicles and WHAT THOSE VEHICLES DO. Answering that question determines if your 10+ tank army can be morphed into 6th viably.
I agree completely. I have been moving towards more infantry based lists. Also jetbikes and Bikes seem absurdly strong.
ReplyDeleteWhere do you see Aegis defence lines being used? I would love to see your take on it with your "out of the box" aproach
Tanks are irritatingly fragile now. Rhinos I can understand because they are just to get you as far up the table as possible. Land Raiders however should be harder to drop. At 250pts they are just too expensive to take now for their lack of survivablility.
ReplyDeleteSo far, I have yet to play. Getting my first games in today to put all this reading into practice. I have been shifting some armies to a higher percentage of infantry as I feel tanks are way too flimsy. Some armies are just SOL on things though, they are just too reliant on tanks; IG and Tau mainly. I understand the use of transports still. But can't shake the feeling that they are metal coffins again.
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking that Monoliths are actually improved now. With the reduced risk of deep strike mishaps, the added jink save for moving skimmers and Spyder ability to heal hull points they can find all sorts of ways to get all up in folks' faces safely. Add to that full damage for blast weapons, snap firing flux arks even after firing ordinance and boosts to your jink save by firing off solar pulses...
ReplyDeleteNot that ive had much chance to test all that, but from the few games I've managed to play so far I figure with a bit of practice the Monolith could shape up to be a nasty piece of work.
For me, and my marines, it just means the drop pod is back.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to My guard.. untill everyone gets thier sjyfire sorted out.. Airbourne is the way to go.
Long live the armored charge of the AV 14 Leman Russ Company!
ReplyDeleteOh Herwo Deathstar! Meet Demolisher Cannon.
I have only played a handfull of games, but in the four that i have played my hammerhead has proven more useful then in 5th.
ReplyDeleteGood read
This really hurt soul grinders/demolishers think demon princes are standard demon heavy support now especially with flying monstrous creatures being bamfs.
ReplyDeleteI am in the terrible position of being too broke to buy the $75 rule book, so my games have been limited by needing to play people with the text, and being unable to really research and dig into the new rules. That being said, I have been playing my DE for every game, and am very pleased with most of the rules changes. However, in terms of vehicles, I am really torn. A Raider with flickerfields was, in 5th, a spindly flying target that always exploded terribly. Now it is all of that, plus you can bat it out of the sky with harsh language. However, today I tried playing an entirely ground based force and got my ass handed to me. Entirely outmanoeuvred by SM. So. I am not sure where I am at. Waiting to buy a $75 book followed by a $75 Voidraven, I guess. If melta was the crack of 5th ed, Fliers are the new supercrack. I really enjoyed playing 3 LR's for those three years. I can't imagine ever fielding the same lists I did. Everything is madness. Madness I say.
ReplyDeleteThe game will shift somewhat, but it won't be seismic. The people most hurt by this are those with more expensive Transports, such as Eldar.
ReplyDeleteYes, spending 100+ pts on an Eldar Wave Serpent does suck, but it does its job. It can move the guys inside it 42" in one turn. How far does a Rhino usually get? 12-18" over three turns? Eldar are paying a premium, but when you come in off of reserve and park a tank 6" from the other side of the board in one turn (plus get a 4+ cover save), you feel less bad about paying those points.
ReplyDeleteErr, I meant 18-36" for the Rhino...
ReplyDeletecan't you build viable armies with nothing but (jet-)bikes, jump infantry & deep strikers? those should get wherever they need to be pretty fast.
ReplyDeleteand get around the problem of moving around the table fast without the need to spend points on vehicles that won't often live long enough to kill something themselves.
ReplyDeleteAll my 6th ed games with my Venom Spam have been wins. While the Venoms didn't any more durable they aren't any MORE fragile. With the addition of HPs most transports became more susceptible to my Dark gLances and out come the soft tender troops.
ReplyDeleteI think GW might have overcompensated against light vehicles a hair, and Hull Points plus some kind of armor save (simply to help mitigate torrenting, but do nothing against dedicated anti-tank fire; that's what your cover save is for) might have created a sweet spot.
ReplyDeleteAs a DE guy, our paper planes are just as weak (though loss of single-shot glance kills and improvement on the damage chart against AP3+ are sorta boons), but still OK. The real kick in the nuts was the S4 hits on explosions for open-topped (combined with FNP nerf) to make them less viable as actual transports.
Thanks to the Jink save and premeasuring, I have been committing to Night Shields much more often and it has helped mitigate mid-range shooting, so there's some skill yet to be exploited. It can still go horribly, horribly wrong, so I think the fully mounted air DE are sorta dead at this point.
I think i will keep my Prisms in, mainly because they have the range & the strenght to either cause my opponents a lot of damage, or draw a lot of attention away from my troops, which will be Guardian Jetbikes from now on, btw. And what if a squad of Dragons needs to be fielded? A Serpent remains by far the best way of getting their short range guns close enough, even if you are certain to lose it straight after.
ReplyDeleteI had been thinking of a Jetbike/warp jump generator/Swooping Hawk winged Autarch with a fusion gun but just one of those isn't a reliable way to melt a Raider, imo.
ReplyDelete